Curse

Abedeus · Nov 22, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

I'm upgrading my graphic card, currently GeForce 8500 GT (;d). I'm thinking about one of the above cards, but I don't know which one is the best, that is - not too expensive, but the most powerful of them all.

Note - 8500 GT costs $75 here, just to let ya know. The cheapest 8800 I've found was something around $110-120 and 9800 was a bit over $140.

Evil Genius · Nov 22, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Where is "here", and how much does the 4850 cost at your location?

Also you may need to be more specific regarding the model of the 8800 and 9800. I'm guessing its a 8800GT and 9800GT?

Abedeus · Nov 22, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Yeah, 8800GT and 9800GT. GTXs cost a bit much.

"here" is craptastic Poland where everything costs twice as much as in, for instance, Spain or London.

The cheapest 4850 costs... $190. So at least $50 then the cheapest 9800GT.
The most expensive 4850 costs $310, I might as well buy the most expensive 9800 GTX+ for $330. At least with GeForce I know what I'm standing on.

All cards 512MB of course, I don't want to waste cash on 1GB's

Evil Genius · Nov 22, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Well the 9800GT is essentially a rebranded 8800GT. The only differences being:
-Tri SLI support (not really relevent to your situation)
-Some are 55nm rather than 65nm. Therefore less power consumption, better overclocking.

Probably better to get the cheapest 8800GT at around $110 or $120 than spend $30 bucks to buy a rebranded card.

Only other option is 4830. Performance is about the same as a 9800GT/8800GT, maybe a little better.

Quote:

Generally speaking, the 4830 proved to be a bit faster than the 9800 GT in our quick round of tests. In terms of overall performance, the contest between the two cards is close enough that, yes, going to a higher-clocked variant of the 9800 GT could potentially tip the balance in Nvidia's direction—perhaps.

Although I'm guessing the 4830 will be more than both the 8800GT and 9800GT in Poland. If this is the case, just get a 8800GT.

Abedeus · Nov 22, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Thanks. Although it's strange what you are saying - 9800's are much cheaper than 8800's here.

The cheapest 9800 I could find is 420ZŁ (1 ZŁ = 0,3 USD, or 1 USD ~ 3 ZŁ) and the cheapest 8800 is 470 ZŁ. That's not a big difference in USD, but in Poland it's... something. The only 8800's cheaper than 9800 are 8800GS, but they are a bit weaker, I think.

Faer · Nov 22, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

9800GT from either EVGA or XFX (EVGA if you want the 90 day step-up option, XFX if you want a double lifetime warranty). Can't really go wrong with either of those manufacturers.

Evil Genius · Nov 22, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

9800GT from either EVGA or XFX (EVGA if you want the 90 day step-up option, XFX if you want a double lifetime warranty). Can't really go wrong with either of those manufacturers.

I haven't checked, but I doubt they have any of those features in Poland. If they don't, just get the cheapest regardless of brand.

Faer · Nov 22, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Genius

get the cheapest regardless of brand.

That tends to be a similar to saying "get the one that will break first". Sure, one could buy a card from a random brand because it's less expensive than a card from a quality brand, but it's a bit of a risky move. If you can afford to have a card break or be defective and need RMA'd or replaced, then it isn't an issue, but for somebody that is concerned about cost, purchasing from a quality manufacturer tends to be a better long term decision. For example, Fenix got an 8800 card from MSI a little while back, and had to RMA it the other day. If he had gotten it from EVGA or XFX (both produce high quality cards, and on top of that offer excellent extras like the 90 day step-up program and the double lifetime warranty, respectively), chances are that he wouldn't be having that problem (and if he sees this, HAHAHA FENIX I TOLD YOU SO, PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT, SCRUB).

So, even if the extras aren't offered in Poland, Abedeus is better off spending a bit extra to get a card from a quality manufacturer (whether it be an 8800 or a 9800, though I still recommend the 9800) as opposed to saving a handful of bucks and risking needing to go without a card or buy a new one in the future.

moriz · Nov 22, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

all nvidia chips, regardless of manufacturer, follow nvidia's specifications and use more or less the same parts. there is actually VERY little quality differences between them. any manufacturer that tries to cut corners usually gets cut from nvidia's list very quickly.

Quaker · Nov 22, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Note - 8500 GT costs $75 here, just to let ya know. The cheapest 8800 I've found was something around $110-120 and 9800 was a bit over $140.

Quote:

Although it's strange what you are saying - 9800's are much cheaper than 8800's here.

Make up your mind - are they cheaper or not!

Get which ever one is cheaper - from a good brand.

NeHoMaR · Nov 22, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I have a 9600GT (the XFX one, it comes overclocked) and I play every single game maxed, including Crysis, for example. It's the first time I feel happy with a graphic card. I was able to buy a 9800GT for the same price and I chose the 9600GT because of good reviews.

Faer · Nov 22, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

there is actually VERY little quality differences between them.

Then what is the explanation for cards from some manufacturers needing repaired or replaced more often that cards from others? Surely, if they are all so close to the same, then these sorts of problems should not exist.

Clearly, there is a problem with more cards from some manufacturers than from others. But if the problem does not lie in the quality of the manufacturing, then what is the problem?

moriz · Nov 22, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

statistical probability. if a good manufacturer has a 0.10% failure rate, and an average manufacturer has a 0.20% failure rate, you'll find twice as much reports of the average manufacturer's cards failing. this is will make it seem as if the average manufacturer is a lot worse if large volumes of cards are involved.

however in a card by card basis, the chance of getting a dud card from either manufacturer is almost the same. if the OP gets a dud card, he can easily send it back for a replacement. the rule of thumb for electronics applies here also: if the component does not fail within the first few days of operation, then it's good and will last a fairly long time.

legacyofkain85 · Nov 22, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

9800 gtx its worth it ,i have a 8800gt bought last year and it costed me more than what the 9800 gtx costs right now,anyway either 8800 gt,gtx or 9800 gtx,id go for the later,and hehe Faer is right Evga and XfX all the way hehe

Faer · Nov 22, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

however in a card by card basis, the chance of getting a dud card from either manufacturer is almost the same.

Almost. So quality manufacturers are still better. Which brings me back to the question I posed: if it's not the manufacturer, then what is the problem, if it occurs on a manufacturer to manufacturer basis? .10% to .20%, something is still happening, regardless of the standards of NVIDIA.

But what is the something?

Abedeus · Nov 22, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Make up your mind - are they cheaper or not!

Apparently, I didn't notice the cheaper 8800's were out of stock. And today after 11am they removed them from the list of products ;p Probably that's why they were out of them - they were cheap.

Guess I'll go with the 9800 for 430zł, then sell my old 8500GT for 150zł (yeah, something about $50 - bad cards are cheap here, so non-technical people like my father buy them). Thanks for the tips everyone. I wish USD was still 2zł, then I could buy a nvidia card for $170 and save almost a hundred zloty.

moriz · Nov 22, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

well, if you can justify paying a small premium for that 0.10% difference, by all means go ahead. is ~$15 worth the infinitely smaller chance of getting a dud? that's for you to decide.

btw, that "something" is called margin of error. sure, a quality manufacturer might have better manufacturing process. the real question is, does it actually matter that much? for the most part, no.

lastly, remember we're not exactly comparing cards of different brands. the comparison between nvidia card board partners is similar to that of a toyota manufactured in ontario to, say, one manufactured in michigan. they are both toyotas, and will be nearly identical in almost every way. ditto with nvidia graphic cards.

Faer · Nov 22, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

So more cards from some manufacturers (such as MSI) get RMA'd than cards from other manufacturers (such as XFX), but that doesn't matter because of how small a chance it is for your own card to go bad regardless of who made it. So even though more cards from some manufacturers go bad than from other manufacturers, you should still buy from the manufacturer that more bad cards come from if it is cheaper than the card that comes from a manufacturer that makes less bad cards. Because the chance of getting a bad card is slim, so it isn't worth an extra $15-$30 to go for quality assurance.

Gotcha. Guess I'll start buying from MSI then. ¯\(º_o)/¯

The Meth · Nov 22, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I think what moriz is trying to say is that the difference between manufactures is so small that is it statistically negligable. How do you know a certain manufacturer has a .1% higher chance of failure? Have you tested 100k cards from everyone to check? If you know someone who has please tell us. But even then it won't matter, because with each new model the reliability between manufacturers could flip flop every time (and often does). Unless you have direct access to the manufactures data on the % of cards that were defective (and I know you don't, because giving out numbers on such a deficiency would be industry suicide) all you have to go on is superstition. If you DO get a bad card its probably going to fail within a week if it works at all, and in that case you are entitled to a refund/replacement regardless of what the warranty may be. At least, that is true in the US, whether is it the same in Poland is something I am don't know, but I would expect that there is some equivalent consumer protection laws there.

moriz · Nov 22, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

not to mention, the $15-30 difference actually does not go to quality assurance (all nvidia board partners are legally required to do that). it actually goes to the monstrously huge lifetime warranty. that's basically all you are buying by going for evga and xfx.